SERBS, JEWS, ISLAMICS, AND KOSOVO

from COMMENTS at Jihad Watch to the post "Free Kosovo will be a door for Islamic jihadists" posted by Robert Spencer, Director of Jihad Watch
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/020001.php#comments
post at http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/020001.php reprinted as follows:

Free Kosovo will be a door for Islamic jihadists

John Bolton says what we have been saying here all along*.

"Free Kosovo a Door for Islamic Radicals," from Javno (thanks to larwyn):
Independent Kosovo will endanger the stability in the Balkans once again, estimated the American ambassador at the UN, John Bolton.

I think that there is a significant risk that the instability in the Balkans will continue in Bosnia and other areas where ethnic groups do not live in a country they refuse, said Bolton in an interview for Glas Amerike reported in Serbian language.

Kosovo will be a weak country submissive to Islamic radical forces which will spread its influence in the area with the support of singular Albanians and so potentially open the door to radicals in Europe, Bolton estimated.

Posted by Robert at February 18, 2008 6:39 AM

All comments to the foregoing post are worth reading. In keeping with the topic of the present post, however, we have reproduced only some of the COMMENTS that elucidate the relationship between Serbs, Jews, Islam and the Kosovo situation.

PMatovic says:

I must say as a serb and a curious onlooker I am more than a bit annoyed that Mr Spencer never dares touch serbian issues here to show us that religious extremism in general and islamic fundamentalism in particular are his real issues whereas serbian nation has been tortured by terrorism and had it's land and possessions stolen by these same forces which he claims to fight which were obviously helped and incited by the western powers led by US.

And someone said saudis did it, maybe a bit but I disagree, it was mainly the zionist jews agitators in US and elsewhere, afterall the biggest serb haters in America and maybe the world are people like Liberman, Lantos(gone now), Feinstein, Albright, Clarke, Holbrooke, Cohen, Friedman etc... for they thought some war mongering away from israel and sucking up to muslims will help them and Israel and for their ultimate target is Russia so they wage war on any slavic people as a precursor and serbian people were a target

As for Serbia, this is obviously the most grievous international law violation since the war itself in 1999 which was followed by Iraq war and is probably just as serious and a matter of existence as 1914 first world war. Clearly the regime in washington wants to wash off hands since their balkan adventures have served their purpose or not and they ahve other fish on their mind, either way "international law" doesn't exist anymore but the balkan issues are not over in fact they are just starting but it maybe without America

Posted by: PMatovic at February 18, 2008 1:14 PM

unicorns62000 says:

Unfortunately some Serbs' Jew-hatred is not only on par with their anti-Albanian/Moslem feelings but outdoes it.

During the U.S.-led NATO offensive against Milosovic's Serbia, the propaganda emanating from the Clinton government likened Serb resistance to the Albanian Moslems to the Genocide perpetrated by the German Nazis against the Jews of the world. Jews in the U.S., ever siding with whomever appears to be the "victim," sympathized with the fleeing Albanian Moslems who on TV were portrayed as the victims of a genocide.

Jews, until very recently, were on the whole uninformed about Islam and its design for world-domination. Unfamiliar with the Koran and the Jew-hatred integral to Islamic teachings of Mohammed, they bought into the whine of Islamic "victimhood."

There were, and still are, plenty of misguided Jews who feel the pain of the "Palestinian" Arab Moslems. That is why Moslem Arabs are sitting in the Knesset and given full Israeli citizenship in Israel.

The Jew-hatred of some Serbs does not endear them to Jews who are facing the same Islamic enemy as the Serbs. Who benefits most from Serbian Jew-hatred? The Islamics of course, who like nothing better than to see their opposition divided and fighting amongst itself.

The Jew-hatred of some Serbs is only outdone by that of the Croats--who embraced the Nazi antisemitism wholeheartedly and without reservations.

Now, that we have seen the problem, is there a solution? If the Serbs were to lay aside their Jew-hatred--if only for the duration of the war against the jihad--and concentrate on trying to keep Moslems out of Europe as they did for centuries, their cause would be better served.

As for the Jews, they do not have an inbred hatred of Serbs. Some Jewish-Americans misguided sympathy for Clinton-bolstered "Kosovars" was not based on hatred of Serbs but on empathy for the apparent "victims." Moslems are always good at playing the role of "victims."

Although accused of hatred of non-Jews by their enemies, Jews as a whole suffer from lack of this emotion as deplored by Ben Hecht:
"What we dream of is—Jews strong enough and honest enough to hate their killers …" --Ben Hecht

Posted by: unicorns62000 at February 19, 2008 5:44 AM

ewha1 says:

The Serbs are very grateful to Israel who were the Serbs biggest allies in the civil wars.

The KLA and Bosnians got huge help from Bin Laden, whilst the Slobo signed deals for huge arms shipments from Israeli arms dealers.

They got the latest in Israeli communications, the Bosnian Serb MUP were kitted out in israeli gear, blah blah blah.

The Serbs rescued many Jews from the NAZIs and suffered almost as horrendously as the Jews did.

End of story.

Posted by: ewha1 at February 19, 2008 5:53 AM

elf says:

@ PMatovic

I come to appreciate Serbian people because I worked with some during the war of ex-Yugoslavia, and I was able to understand their point of view and their pain when like you they read the Western medias. I also learn about the fierce resistance of the Orthodox axis against the ottoman invasion.

@ unicorns62000

I totally agree with you analysis. A lot of Jews are impulsively triggered to defend victims... even if it is only a role played for public opinion and worst even against their vital interest! As for hatred, it is a sin worst than murder because it can kill many. Some are working hard to explain why islamophobia is a sane reaction for anyone who reads the koran but incredibly in face of our painful history most Jews cannot even believe in hatred...that is maybe why the holocaust is such a trauma because we cannot understand it.

Posted by: elf at February 19, 2008 4:21 PM

elf says:

@ PMatovic

Refrain your antisemitism. You give the name of some Jews and you say it is because of the Jews, but you could have give the same number of names of Jews who where on the opposite side. So the problem is not that some Jews have a different opinion, it is that you already have in your mind the model of "the international Jewry comploting and having a lot of power" against Orthodox Christians, after all don't you learn that they kill Christ?

Fresh news: Christ was Jehuda and Jew, and the death punishment on the cross is Roman, Roma being the place of the Vatican today. So as an Orthodox goes fight the Roman Christians if you want, I am sure you can find some in the American Congress as well, but stop pretending that Jews are your enemy because I like Serbian people and I am Jew. Don't mistake the enemy, Jews are not making Jihad to conquer the world...only antisemitic propaganda says so!

Posted by: elf at February 18, 2008 3:57 PM

patagonianplato says:

PMatovic wrote,

“it was mainly the zionist jews agitators in US and elsewhere”

The above quote is a classic example of anti-Semitic tripe.

President Bush and Secretary Rice are responsible for this insanity and they are both Christian.

Please take Elf’s advice and refrain yourself!

Second, your general statement about Mr. Spencer and his views of the Balkans and Serbia shows that not only have you not paid attention to the articles here at Jihadwatch, but that you didn’t even read this article’s headline.

The headline clearly makes Mr. Spencer’s position on an independent Kosovo clear.

Posted by: patagonianplato at February 18, 2008 4:49 PM

PMatovic says:

@ PMatovic

Refrain your antisemitism. You give the name of some Jews and you say it is because of the Jews, but you could have give the same number of names of Jews who where on the opposite side. So the problem is not that some Jews have a different opinion, it is that you already have in your mind the model of "the international Jewry comploting and having a lot of power" against Orthodox Christians, after all don't you learn that they kill Christ?
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I could name hundreds of zionists in power in government and media in US but also Canada ,western Europe , jews and non jews alike and just about every jewish organizations that portrayed Serbian people as nazis and all the muslims as angels to be saved from holocaust like conditions which basically incited bombing every inch of serbian land and making a million serbs refugees.

Most notorious was William Kristol the neocon(talking about crushing serbian skulls) and Tom Friedman New York Times calling for war on entire Serbian people. There is no question that they acted in concert to demonize serbian people along with entire american political and media elite. As I remember it was presented as a way toward jewish muslim friendship and understanding over attacking Serbia where even jewish and muslim american organizations united for the first time . This is my view over the years that has just been reinforced by the other events notably in Iraq .

I have nothing personal against jewish people but I am not sure it's other way around. Maybe they see us as easy pickings and risk free bashing. Serb bashing is so common in the western media where I have stopped paying attention.

I used to be pro israel in their conflicts as I was serbian and we had issues with muslims and I saw jews as victims from the past but I have rarely met them and I wish them peace in Israel despite everything but in my opinion they won't have the peace due to the nature of that conflict and neither will we until US and Israel are completelly independent of each other and US can behave responsably and without bias in international arena again or the consequences can be truelly awful on global scale
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Fresh news: Christ was Jehuda and Jew, and the death punishment on the cross is Roman, Roma being the place of the Vatican today. So as an Orthodox goes fight the Roman Christians if you want, I am sure you can find some in the American Congress as well, but stop pretending that Jews are your enemy because I like Serbian people and I am Jew. Don't mistake the enemy, Jews are not making Jihad to conquer the world...only antisemitic propaganda says so!
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I am techically orthodox christian but religion was never to my taste personally , in fact most are lacking to me so I don't base my thinking on religion as I am very much secular and I certainly don't hold historic grudges or to any ethnic group that has nothing to do with today's world. My opinions are not based on religious antagonism

But I must say that I can not see jews as my personal friends or friends to serbian people in general, certainly not after this and all these years. After all it was organized jewish persistence in demonizing serbian people that led to today's situation , organized jewry in media and positions of power attacked us to appease their muslim rivals and enemies , we never attacked them nor were a threat to them

You say you like serbian people and I don't know why is that as that would make you different to just about every jewish person or non jewish zionist in American/Western media and position of power

As for recognizing friends and enemies , I have a distinct feeling that Israel will recognize the self declared and illegal "kosovo" sooner than say Iran if they ever do , not to mention US and its satellites which is given

Posted by: PMatovic at February 18, 2008 7:13 PM

PMatovic says:

PMatovic wrote,

“it was mainly the zionist jews agitators in US and elsewhere”
The above quote is a classic example of anti-Semitic tripe.
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recognizing that someone acted in concert to achieve a certain result is fact telling, not stereotyping as you allude to. I am pointing out to zionist political elite in Washington , not ordinary jewish person elsewhere
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President Bush and Secretary Rice are responsible for this insanity and they are both Christian.
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They are actually just inheriting this and politically they are dead ducks so it's not about them. The people who created this before them in Clinton time are commited zionists, from both parties and Bush himself is a known "chritian zionist" who is pushing for wars against Israeli muslim enemies and rivals and will never withdraw from Iraq mostly because of Israel so I guess he wants to do something for the muslims in his mind at least.
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Second, your general statement about Mr. Spencer and his views of the Balkans and Serbia shows that not only have you not paid attention to the articles here at Jihadwatch, but that you didn’t even read this article’s headline.
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I have looked around and barely saw anything in the week prior, some little things from long time ago and I thought it was a perfect occasion for Mr Spencer to show his real stand but what I saw is a very timid non critical stance, that is Mr. Spencer seems to be adjusting his opinions to typical american mainstream media/US government view of the world where everything is related to American and Israeli interests and not because some real issues that are truely global. In effect I can hardly see Mr. Spencer criticing US and Iaraeli government on anything such as its recent warmongering on Iran or Iraq war or even its balkan policies. Willfully or not , some issues relating to jihad , islamic fundamentalism, war and terrorsm seem to be skewed to fit a political agenda which is a shame because the issue is global and causes and fuels of this problem seem to be deliberatelly obfuscated and not just by mainstream western media
The headline clearly makes Mr. Spencer’s position on an independent Kosovo clear.
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Which part? "Free Kosovo"?
Posted by: PMatovic at February 18, 2008 7:59 PM

hope_and_justice says:

"Most notorious was William Kristol the neocon(talking about crushing serbian skulls) and Tom Friedman New York Times calling for war on entire Serbian people. There is no question that they acted in concert to demonize serbian people along with entire american political and media elite. As I remember it was presented as a way toward jewish muslim friendship and understanding over attacking Serbia where even jewish and muslim american organizations united for the first time . This is my view over the years that has just been reinforced by the other events notably in Iraq ."

I agree with you about Kristol, and some others, but I don't see what they are doing as part of being Jewish.

The Neocons are not exclusively Jewish, and they have an ideology unto themselves. It is an insane utopian ideology that will lead to death and distruction of innocent people, and destabilization of states leading to greater tyranny, like Communism was. But it is not distinctionly Jewish or Zionist.

I support Israel (one might call me Zionist, although that seems inappropriate because my reasons are basic universal Justice and not anything particularly of a religious tradition, neither Evangelical Christainity nor Judaism).

I think most Jews at their core genuinely care about and support Western civilization and its principles (which, if applied sanely and open-eyed to E. Europe, would not lead to this Kosovo mess). And I think that Judaism is an honorable religion, nothing like Islam. There is nothing in any of the personal, cultural, or religious factors that group together Jews as Jews that is behind the problem with tarring the Serbs.

For that larger explanation you have to go beyond Judaism and Jewish people, and into a category of people united by Neoconservative ideology. That, in my opinion, is how to explain the Kristol connexion.

And Yes - absolutely Neocons want to befriend the Muslims against the E. Europeans. The motivations are complicated. It is in part because remnant cold war beliefs, in part also I think because of memory of how E. Europe mistreated Jews historically (of course that isn't to say all Jews accept the Neocon feelings of how to deal with this history). What the Neocons are doing is a bit more like what (non-Jewish) W. Europe political elite leftists are doing with the Jews: we'll sell you out in an attempt to appease the Muslims.

(Aside, I think the Neocon variety of this approach in elite "Conservative" circles, is also at least in part an influence behind D'Souza's attempt to ally American religious rightwingers with Muslims against Liberals, in contempt of individual rights and natural God-given liberties.)

In part also is that the Neocons have deep issues with a sort of hollow "respecting" of religion, and have fallen under the "Islam is peace" spell just as much as any far left liberal you'll find. Neoconservatives are largely nihilists that have half-found religion through philosophy, and think people can use is as some sort of amorphous Nietzschen tool for obtaining a sense of personal and social meaning.

They have this preexisting reason for wanting, needing, to believe Islam is good - they see it, as all realigion, as coming from a deeper universal person yearning that makes people more than biological machines, but as not strictly true. Islam they put in this category, and it precludes them from seeing it as not an organic outgrowing of this desire, or a chosen match for it, but as a religion people by and large actually adopted to avoid discrimination, lower status, onerous taxes, or a knife to the throat.

Even if they do see the latter, they don't see how the latter means that it is quite possible the religion is incompatible with the former; they don't see how the later circumstance removes all checks that the ideology conform to the former desire. No matter its texts, or the circumstances of its spread; they'd rather think all religions are infinetly maleable to fit the inner desire, because the Neocons are ideologically married to certain ideas about what all religion is.

You'll get a sense of it, of their conviction that religion is all inherently good and necessary, yet not real exactly except in how people use them (very post modern), and a sense of how this influences their politics and approach to Islam, if you read their publications regularly, at least for a while, and browse some of their founding philosophy.

This motivates much of their policy, in coordination with their never-discarded cold-war outlook and, it seems for some Jewish Neocons, an anti-E. Euro vengeful streak, for past historical injustices (totally the wrong way to react to those past injustices, as now the main threat is not E. Euro pogroms, but Muslims wanting Jews wiped of the map for religious reasons).

At the same time you do have a lot of people, Jews and not Jews, buying the propaganda Washington has been putting out over the years. They aren't Neocons, such people, but they've been propagandized into going along with their policies. This group categorizes not as Jews or Neocons, but as dupes.

Posted by: hope_and_justice at February 20, 2008 10:20 AM

* what we [at Jihad Watch] have been saying all along:

Persecution of Kosovo Christians Said to Reveal Larger Threat

Fitzgerald: Independence for a Muslim Kosovo?

Kosovo: Church of Christ the Savior in Pristina turned into public toilet

Fjordman: Why We Should Oppose an Independent Kosovo

Hiding Genocide in Kosovo

Jihad and Kosovo: What Are They Thinking in Washington?

Kosovo: A Cautionary Tale